14:59:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:59:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:59:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:59:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←
14:59:07 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:59:07 <trackbot> Date: 10 April 2013
14:59:22 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, please dial ericP-office ←
14:59:22 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ericP; the call is being made ←
14:59:54 <Guus> trackbot, start meeting
Guus Schreiber: trackbot, start meeting ←
14:59:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:59:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:59:58 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←
14:59:59 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:59:59 <trackbot> Date: 10 April 2013
15:00:26 <AndyS> zakim, who is here?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is here? ←
15:00:26 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS ←
15:00:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, tbaker, pchampin, FabGandon, AndyS, TallTed, manu, gavinc, Arnaud, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, manu1, mischat, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, tbaker, pchampin, FabGandon, AndyS, TallTed, manu, gavinc, Arnaud, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, manu1, mischat, sandro, trackbot ←
15:00:31 <AndyS> zakim, who is here?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is here? ←
15:00:31 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, AndyS ←
15:00:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, tbaker, pchampin, FabGandon, AndyS, TallTed, manu, gavinc, Arnaud, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, manu1, mischat, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, tbaker, pchampin, FabGandon, AndyS, TallTed, manu, gavinc, Arnaud, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, manu1, mischat, sandro, trackbot ←
15:01:16 <Guus> pls volunteer to scribe
Guus Schreiber: pls volunteer to scribe ←
15:02:17 <Arnaud> zakim, mute me
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, mute me ←
15:02:17 <Zakim> sorry, Arnaud, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Arnaud, I don't know what conference this is ←
15:02:56 <AndyS> zakim, this is 73394
Andy Seaborne: zakim, this is 73394 ←
15:02:56 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:03:06 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:03:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, EricP, [IPcaller], pfps, Sandro, ??P9, ??P11, Arnaud, cgreer, ??P18, ??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, EricP, [IPcaller], pfps, Sandro, ??P9, ??P11, Arnaud, cgreer, ??P18, ??P17 ←
15:03:09 <markus> zakim, code?
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, code? ←
15:03:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus ←
15:03:11 <Zakim> -??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P9 ←
15:03:16 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
15:03:16 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:03:19 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P18
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P18 ←
15:03:19 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
15:03:27 <Zakim> +??P20
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20 ←
15:03:39 <markus> zakim, ??P20 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P20 is me ←
15:03:39 <Zakim> +markus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it ←
15:03:47 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:03:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, EricP, AndyS, pfps, Sandro, ??P11, Arnaud (muted), cgreer, gkellogg, ??P17, markus
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, EricP, AndyS, pfps, Sandro, ??P11, Arnaud (muted), cgreer, gkellogg, ??P17, markus ←
15:03:54 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
15:03:59 <AZ> Zakim, ??P17 is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P17 is me ←
15:04:00 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:04:00 <pchampin> zakim, ??P21 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P21 is me ←
15:04:00 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
15:04:09 <cgreer> scribenick cgreer
Charles Greer: scribenick cgreer ←
15:04:17 <Zakim> +bhyland
Zakim IRC Bot: +bhyland ←
15:04:18 <Guus> chair: Guus
15:04:33 <davidwood> Zakim, bhyland is me
David Wood: Zakim, bhyland is me ←
15:04:34 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it ←
15:04:50 <cgreer> scribenick: cgreer
(Scribe set to Charles Greer)
15:05:25 <pfps> Minutes are beautiful
Peter Patel-Schneider: Minutes are beautiful ←
15:05:42 <cgreer> RESOLVED: Minutes accepted from April 3 telecon
RESOLVED: Minutes accepted from April 3 telecon ←
15:05:56 <cgreer> topic: telecon bridge
15:06:20 <cgreer> sandro: zakim is over capacity at noon
Sandro Hawke: zakim is over capacity at noon ←
15:06:26 <cgreer> ... running late causes a problem
... running late causes a problem ←
15:06:45 <cgreer> ... there's a system called calliflower that I propose to use
... there's a system called calliflower that I propose to use ←
15:07:24 <cgreer> ... I propose we try it next week.
... I propose we try it next week. ←
15:07:31 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
15:07:35 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P28 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P28 is me ←
15:07:35 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:07:36 <cgreer> ... I propose we use IRC as normal
... I propose we use IRC as normal ←
15:07:45 <manu> q+
Manu Sporny: q+ ←
15:07:49 <pfps> so no connection betrween IRC and the phone?
Peter Patel-Schneider: so no connection betrween IRC and the phone? ←
15:07:50 <cgreer> ... People using the phone won't show up on IRC
... People using the phone won't show up on IRC ←
15:08:08 <pfps> zakim, who is talking?
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is talking? ←
15:08:11 <davidwood> So we will lose some IRC/telephone integration
David Wood: So we will lose some IRC/telephone integration ←
15:08:16 <Arnaud> I think attendance is the biggest loss
Arnaud Le Hors: I think attendance is the biggest loss ←
15:08:19 <Zakim> pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (9%), AndyS (16%), Sandro (43%)
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (9%), AndyS (16%), Sandro (43%) ←
15:08:28 <Arnaud> for queue management I don't see why we don't keep using irc
Arnaud Le Hors: for queue management I don't see why we don't keep using irc ←
15:08:37 <cgreer> sandro: the current list is generated by phone and IRC -- people only on the phone will have to be notated on IRC
Sandro Hawke: the current list is generated by phone and IRC -- people only on the phone will have to be notated on IRC ←
15:09:06 <cgreer> ... it would be easy to automate if turns out to be worthwhile
... it would be easy to automate if turns out to be worthwhile ←
15:09:21 <cgreer> manu: We could allow use of our system
Manu Sporny: We could allow use of our system ←
15:09:23 <Zakim> +??P30
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30 ←
15:09:42 <cgreer> ... If the JSON-LD minutes are acceptable, then we could try out that system.
... If the JSON-LD minutes are acceptable, then we could try out that system. ←
15:09:55 <cgreer> ... You can call in with voip or regular phone, as the latter costs money
... You can call in with voip or regular phone, as the latter costs money ←
15:10:17 <cgreer> ... it's our service. We run an Asterisk server
... it's our service. We run an Asterisk server ←
15:10:47 <cgreer> ... it's not as complete as Zakim, but it's open source and people can extend it
... it's not as complete as Zakim, but it's open source and people can extend it ←
15:10:59 <ericP> appreciating manu's generous offer, i think we'd end up hacking the system and so we'd want to use digital bizarre's service only if we were going to adopt asterisk
Eric Prud'hommeaux: appreciating manu's generous offer, i think we'd end up hacking the system and so we'd want to use digital bizarre's service only if we were going to adopt asterisk ←
15:11:09 <ericP> q?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q? ←
15:11:18 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:11:20 <cgreer> ericP: I expect we'd want to hack the system though.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I expect we'd want to hack the system though. ←
15:11:52 <cgreer> ... this ups the value of w3c setting up an asterisk server.
... this ups the value of w3c setting up an asterisk server. ←
15:12:00 <cgreer> davidwood: stay tuned for email about next week
David Wood: stay tuned for email about next week ←
15:12:16 <cgreer> ... everyone OK to delegate to chairs about next week's telecon?
... everyone OK to delegate to chairs about next week's telecon? ←
15:12:17 <pfps> Go wild!
Peter Patel-Schneider: Go wild! ←
15:12:18 <Arnaud> +1
Arnaud Le Hors: +1 ←
15:12:38 <cgreer> guus: Any alternate we choose must not increase admin.
Guus Schreiber: Any alternate we choose must not increase admin. ←
15:12:48 <cgreer> sandro: I'll take on any additional admin
Sandro Hawke: I'll take on any additional admin ←
15:13:14 <Zakim> +GavinC
Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC ←
15:13:40 <cgreer> topic: action items
15:14:23 <cgreer> ericP: We can't wrap up test suite until stream of comments has calmed
Eric Prud'hommeaux: We can't wrap up test suite until stream of comments has calmed ←
15:14:39 <cgreer> guus: Gavin has an action.
Guus Schreiber: Gavin has an action. ←
15:15:27 <cgreer> ericP: We choose new URL, Gavin tags, then set up proxy.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: We choose new URL, Gavin tags, then set up proxy. ←
15:15:29 <gavinc> First I get Grants from the two other contributors, which I will finally have time to do this week!
Gavin Carothers: First I get Grants from the two other contributors, which I will finally have time to do this week! ←
15:15:34 <gavinc> woohoo!
Gavin Carothers: woohoo! ←
15:16:13 <trackbot> Did you mean to close ACTION-241? If so, please say 'close ACTION-241'.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Did you mean to close ACTION-241? If so, please say 'close ACTION-241'. ←
15:16:18 <cgreer> close ACTION-241
close ACTION-241 ←
15:16:18 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-241 Review JSON-LD API document.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-241 Review JSON-LD API document. ←
15:16:34 <gavinc> Thanks Guus for finishing those
Gavin Carothers: Thanks Guus for finishing those ←
15:16:41 <cgreer> topic: Document Publication
15:16:50 <cgreer> guus: There are four new FPWDs
Guus Schreiber: There are four new FPWDs ←
15:17:30 <gavinc> https://github.com/darobin/respec
Gavin Carothers: https://github.com/darobin/respec ←
15:17:31 <cgreer> guus: The respec document has a list where you should put comments, but the list doesn't exist. respec is generating the wrong HTML
Guus Schreiber: The respec document has a list where you should put comments, but the list doesn't exist. respec is generating the wrong HTML ←
15:17:35 <gavinc> that's respec today?
Gavin Carothers: that's respec today? ←
15:17:48 <cgreer> guus: Who maintains it? No email address for the comment list
Guus Schreiber: Who maintains it? No email address for the comment list ←
15:18:04 <gavinc> https://github.com/darobin/respec/issues ;)
Gavin Carothers: https://github.com/darobin/respec/issues ;) ←
15:18:21 <gavinc> Magic, you know via Magic
Gavin Carothers: Magic, you know via Magic ←
15:18:37 <cgreer> markus: Robin is pretty good with responding from github
Markus Lanthaler: Robin is pretty good with responding from github ←
15:19:02 <gavinc> Yeah, pubrules is wrong ;)
Gavin Carothers: Yeah, pubrules is wrong ;) ←
15:19:21 <cgreer> guus: Leaving in RDFa generates pubrules errors
Guus Schreiber: Leaving in RDFa generates pubrules errors ←
15:19:30 <cgreer> ericP: Use "1.1" rather than "true" for RDFa
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Use "1.1" rather than "true" for RDFa ←
15:19:44 <cgreer> sandro: It may generate errors that the web admin has to resolve
Sandro Hawke: It may generate errors that the web admin has to resolve ←
15:19:58 <gavinc> I'm pretty sure that RDFa only works in the XHTML output, not the HTML output
Gavin Carothers: I'm pretty sure that RDFa only works in the XHTML output, not the HTML output ←
15:19:59 <cgreer> guus: Somebody help with publication wiki page maintenance please
Guus Schreiber: Somebody help with publication wiki page maintenance please ←
15:20:11 <cgreer> topic: JSON-LD
15:20:40 <cgreer> gkellogg: Markus has prepared JSON-LD 1.0 and JSON-LD-API
Gregg Kellogg: Markus has prepared JSON-LD 1.0 and JSON-LD-API ←
15:20:56 <cgreer> ... They pass pubrules, etc, etc
... They pass pubrules, etc, etc ←
15:21:10 <cgreer> ... We've closed the loops with commenters, no outstanding issues
... We've closed the loops with commenters, no outstanding issues ←
15:21:35 <markus> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Features_at_Risk
Markus Lanthaler: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Features_at_Risk ←
15:21:40 <cgreer> ... We've marked a few things 'feature at risk' for those things we want feedback during LC
... We've marked a few things 'feature at risk' for those things we want feedback during LC ←
15:22:02 <cgreer> ... We just want proposal and resolution to publish as LC
... We just want proposal and resolution to publish as LC ←
15:22:05 <cgreer> ... The end
... The end ←
15:22:19 <manu> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld/20130411/index.html
Manu Sporny: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld/20130411/index.html ←
15:22:24 <manu> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld-api/20130411/index.html
Manu Sporny: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld-api/20130411/index.html ←
15:22:54 <cgreer> guus: I'd like to go through features at risk
Guus Schreiber: I'd like to go through features at risk ←
15:23:02 <cgreer> manu: From the top --
Manu Sporny: From the top -- ←
15:23:09 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.96.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.92.96.aaaa ←
15:23:09 <cgreer> ... @base
... @base ←
15:23:32 <cgreer> ... we were trying to cut down on the number of keywords, but we got feedback that it's a useful features
... we were trying to cut down on the number of keywords, but we got feedback that it's a useful features ←
15:23:54 <FabGandon> Zakim, +33.4.92.96.aaaa is me
Fabien Gandon: Zakim, +33.4.92.96.aaaa is me ←
15:23:54 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +FabGandon; got it ←
15:24:03 <cgreer> ... The interop of blank @base vs. explicit @base is confusing (potentially)
... The interop of blank @base vs. explicit @base is confusing (potentially) ←
15:24:13 <cgreer> ... The other concern is what the empty string should do
... The other concern is what the empty string should do ←
15:24:30 <cgreer> ... Next feature at risk is reverse property
... Next feature at risk is reverse property ←
15:24:42 <cgreer> ... Allows one to switch subject and object position
... Allows one to switch subject and object position ←
15:24:52 <cgreer> ... Again, concern is use vs confusion
... Again, concern is use vs confusion ←
15:25:00 <cgreer> ... Next feature - -blank nodes as properties
... Next feature - -blank nodes as properties ←
15:25:21 <cgreer> ... Compromise in spec now. We await feedback from implementors
... Compromise in spec now. We await feedback from implementors ←
15:25:53 <cgreer> ... Converting list of lists. The algorithm for this is fairly complex, use is questioned.
... Converting list of lists. The algorithm for this is fairly complex, use is questioned. ←
15:26:05 <cgreer> gkellogg: We marked this feature as 'at risk' and we've not provided implementation
Gregg Kellogg: We marked this feature as 'at risk' and we've not provided implementation ←
15:26:19 <cgreer> manu: Next has to do with Web IDL
Manu Sporny: Next has to do with Web IDL ←
15:26:35 <cgreer> ... We use web IDL to express the API. There are rough patches in this standard.
... We use web IDL to express the API. There are rough patches in this standard. ←
15:26:36 <gkellogg> Also, note RDFa 1.1 does not support lists of lists.
Gregg Kellogg: Also, note RDFa 1.1 does not support lists of lists. ←
15:27:14 <cgreer> ... If you specify an optional parameter, you cannot mix and match optionality or parameters... you have to overload signatures to express this.
... If you specify an optional parameter, you cannot mix and match optionality or parameters... you have to overload signatures to express this. ←
15:27:24 <gkellogg> (Rather, neither have syntactic sugar for lists of lists, they do support explicit rdf:first/rdf:next
Gregg Kellogg: (Rather, neither have syntactic sugar for lists of lists, they do support explicit rdf:first/rdf:next ←
15:28:15 <cgreer> ... We ran API against Web IDL test harness.
... We ran API against Web IDL test harness. ←
15:28:37 <cgreer> ... It fails method overloading, but we think the JSON-LD-API is correct nevertheless
... It fails method overloading, but we think the JSON-LD-API is correct nevertheless ←
15:29:08 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:29:08 <cgreer> ... This isn't a technical issue, but how to get around problems in Web IDL and still reference it
... This isn't a technical issue, but how to get around problems in Web IDL and still reference it ←
15:29:18 <cgreer> manu: Last feature,
Manu Sporny: Last feature, ←
15:29:29 <cgreer> ... We're thinking we might change default value of @base
... We're thinking we might change default value of @base ←
15:29:45 <cgreer> ... to null, so that by default relative IRIs are not expanded
... to null, so that by default relative IRIs are not compacted ←
15:29:54 <cgreer> s/expanded/compacted
15:30:09 <cgreer> ... That's it
... That's it ←
15:30:21 <manu> q-
Manu Sporny: q- ←
15:31:02 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:31:02 <cgreer> sandro: This is important work, not perfect, but I think it's ready for LC
Sandro Hawke: This is important work, not perfect, but I think it's ready for LC ←
15:31:46 <PatH> +1 sandro
Patrick Hayes: +1 sandro ←
15:32:02 <cgreer> PROPOSED to publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents
PROPOSED to publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents ←
15:32:07 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
15:32:11 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
15:32:16 <markus> +1
Markus Lanthaler: +1 ←
15:32:27 <sandro> PROPOSED: to publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents
PROPOSED: to publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents ←
15:32:46 <sandro> manu: 4 weeks last call
Manu Sporny: 4 weeks last call [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:32:50 <cgreer> manu: Publication date is 4/11, LC period is for four weeks
Manu Sporny: Publication date is 4/11, LC period is for four weeks ←
15:32:54 <yvesr> +1
Yves Raimond: +1 ←
15:32:58 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:32:59 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:33:03 <cgreer> +1
+1 ←
15:33:07 <pchampin> +1
15:33:08 <ericP> +1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 ←
15:33:12 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:33:12 <FabGandon> +1
Fabien Gandon: +1 ←
15:33:13 <Guus> +1
Guus Schreiber: +1 ←
15:33:18 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
15:33:26 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:33:27 <cgreer> RESOLVED: publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents.
RESOLVED: publish Last Call WDs of the JSON-LD documents. ←
15:33:28 <Arnaud> +1
Arnaud Le Hors: +1 ←
15:33:39 <davidwood> Whew!
David Wood: Whew! ←
15:33:39 <ericP> congrats!
Eric Prud'hommeaux: congrats! ←
15:33:57 <sandro> much thanks!
Sandro Hawke: much thanks! ←
15:34:14 <cgreer> sandro: Question about LC period. Semtech is in the middle of it.
Sandro Hawke: Question about LC period. Semtech is in the middle of it. ←
15:34:30 <cgreer> ... Do we want to be in CR or LC for semtech?
... Do we want to be in CR or LC for semtech? ←
15:34:52 <cgreer> guus: We'd thought of skipping CR --
Guus Schreiber: We'd thought of skipping CR -- ←
15:35:09 <cgreer> markus: There's a marker in the spec the we could skip if there are a lot of implementors
Markus Lanthaler: There's a marker in the spec the we could skip if there are a lot of implementors ←
15:35:39 <Arnaud> usual rant: there is no such thing as "skipping CR" per se, the question is whether we believe we already qualify to exit CR right away
Arnaud Le Hors: usual rant: there is no such thing as "skipping CR" per se, the question is whether we believe we already qualify to exit CR right away ←
15:35:43 <cgreer> sandro: LC ends on May 11. So that would give us three weeks to get to CR for Semtech
Sandro Hawke: LC ends on May 11. So that would give us three weeks to get to CR for Semtech ←
15:36:10 <tbaker> +1
Thomas Baker: +1 ←
15:36:19 <Arnaud> zakim, unmute me
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, unmute me ←
15:36:19 <Zakim> Arnaud was not muted, Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: Arnaud was not muted, Arnaud ←
15:36:31 <Arnaud> q+
Arnaud Le Hors: q+ ←
15:36:52 <cgreer> manu: We want to make sure we can address any issues during LC
Manu Sporny: We want to make sure we can address any issues during LC ←
15:37:09 <sandro> sandro: Given all the Features as Risk, let's not skip CR.
Sandro Hawke: Given all the Features as Risk, let's not skip CR. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:37:58 <Guus> ack Arnoud
Guus Schreiber: ack Arnoud ←
15:37:58 <cgreer> Arnaud: There's no such thing as skipping CR
Arnaud Le Hors: There's no such thing as skipping CR ←
15:38:20 <cgreer> ... You have to go to CR technically. If we meet criteria to exit right away, then we can move through it quick.
... You have to go to CR technically. If we meet criteria to exit right away, then we can move through it quick. ←
15:38:27 <cgreer> sandro: well, you can skip, but we're not going to.
Sandro Hawke: well, you can skip, but we're not going to. ←
15:38:30 <sandro> 4 Weeks puts us at May 9
Sandro Hawke: 4 Weeks puts us at May 9 ←
15:38:54 <cgreer> guus: Correct date -- May 10 for end of LC
Guus Schreiber: Correct date -- May 10 for end of LC ←
15:38:59 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
15:39:08 <cgreer> manu: OK we'll update docs
Manu Sporny: OK we'll update docs ←
15:39:35 <gkellogg> http://json-ld.org/test-suite/
Gregg Kellogg: http://json-ld.org/test-suite/ ←
15:39:43 <gkellogg> http://json-ld.org/test-suite/reports/
Gregg Kellogg: http://json-ld.org/test-suite/reports/ ←
15:39:52 <cgreer> manu: Test suite is in good shape. Gregg has put together a quick publication of test suite. Fairly rough but improving.
Manu Sporny: Test suite is in good shape. Gregg has put together a quick publication of test suite. Fairly rough but improving. ←
15:40:18 <Zakim> +Sandro.a
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro.a ←
15:40:22 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:40:27 <cgreer> gkellogg: The process is similar to that from turtle, but needs further documentation -- the differentiation of different test types.
Gregg Kellogg: The process is similar to that from turtle, but needs further documentation -- the differentiation of different test types. ←
15:40:48 <cgreer> ... We don't have any syntax-only tests
... We don't have any syntax-only tests ←
15:41:21 <davidwood> Arnaud, regarding skipping a CR, please see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance where it says: "Call for Implementations. Note: The Director may permit the Working Group to skip this step if the entrance criteria for the next step have already been satisfied."
David Wood: Arnaud, regarding skipping a CR, please see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance where it says: "Call for Implementations. Note: The Director may permit the Working Group to skip this step if the entrance criteria for the next step have already been satisfied." ←
15:41:37 <davidwood> NB - "Call for Implementations" = CR
David Wood: NB - "Call for Implementations" = CR ←
15:41:40 <cgreer> gkellogg: There are submanifests for JSON-LD tests. And an umbrella manifest that references them.
Gregg Kellogg: There are submanifests for JSON-LD tests. And an umbrella manifest that references them. ←
15:41:45 <cgreer> ... We don't need to consolidate further
... We don't need to consolidate further ←
15:42:09 <cgreer> manu: We're going to use RDF-WG tracker for issues, since it folds in email conversations
Manu Sporny: We're going to use RDF-WG tracker for issues, since it folds in email conversations ←
15:42:16 <Arnaud> david, ok, I stand corrected!
Arnaud Le Hors: david, ok, I stand corrected! ←
15:42:23 <cgreer> ... Do not use github issue tracker for LC
... Do not use github issue tracker for LC ←
15:42:26 <gkellogg> SOTD references public-rdf-comments@w3.org
Gregg Kellogg: SOTD references public-rdf-comments@w3.org ←
15:42:43 <gavinc> Yeah, it sort of sucks.
Gavin Carothers: Yeah, it sort of sucks. ←
15:42:55 <Arnaud> it's just a technicality anyway, the result is the same
Arnaud Le Hors: it's just a technicality anyway, the result is the same ←
15:43:00 <cgreer> manu: For disposition of comments, you need an issue tracker.
Manu Sporny: For disposition of comments, you need an issue tracker. ←
15:43:20 <cgreer> ... we create an issue for each comment. At end of last call we have a good set of issues.
... we create an issue for each comment. At end of last call we have a good set of issues. ←
15:43:36 <cgreer> sandro: How do you create a summary?
Sandro Hawke: How do you create a summary? ←
15:43:39 <cgreer> manu: by hand
Manu Sporny: by hand ←
15:43:45 <Arnaud> q-
Arnaud Le Hors: q- ←
15:43:50 <manu> q-
Manu Sporny: q- ←
15:43:55 <manu> q-
Manu Sporny: q- ←
15:44:12 <manu> q- manu:,
Manu Sporny: q- manu:, ←
15:44:15 <cgreer> topic: RDF-JSON
15:44:19 <manu> q- by
Manu Sporny: q- by ←
15:44:38 <cgreer> guus: We have a note about RDF-JSON.
Guus Schreiber: We have a note about RDF-JSON. ←
15:44:47 <cgreer> ... Is this useful to publish as a note?
... Is this useful to publish as a note? ←
15:45:03 <cgreer> Arnaud: IBM has been experimenting with JSON-LD and RDF-JSON
Arnaud Le Hors: IBM has been experimenting with JSON-LD and RDF-JSON ←
15:45:05 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:45:05 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:45:16 <cgreer> ... Because of the use cases, RDF-JSON is a better fit
... Because of the use cases, RDF-JSON is a better fit ←
15:45:42 <cgreer> ... JSON-LD is designed for JSON developers to access data stores.
... JSON-LD is designed for JSON developers to access data stores. ←
15:45:57 <cgreer> ... A different use case is a completely JSON environment, such as using MongoDB.
... A different use case is a completely JSON environment, such as using MongoDB. ←
15:46:06 <cgreer> ... And you want to use RDF within JSON syntax
... And you want to use RDF within JSON syntax ←
15:46:12 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:46:17 <cgreer> ... Storing RDF in JSON database
... Storing RDF in JSON database ←
15:46:25 <manu> q+
Manu Sporny: q+ ←
15:46:37 <cgreer> ... Compacted form doesn't work, you want to store expanded form.
... Compacted form doesn't work, you want to store expanded form. ←
15:47:24 <cgreer> ... Structure of expanded JSON-LD doesn't lend itself to RDF processing out of the box -- this has led us to conclude that RDF-JSON meets other use cases better.
... Structure of expanded JSON-LD doesn't lend itself to RDF processing out of the box -- this has led us to conclude that RDF-JSON meets other use cases better. ←
15:47:56 <cgreer> ... This has left us with RDF-JSON listed as ED... IBM intends to use it with a stable reference.
... This has left us with RDF-JSON listed as ED... IBM intends to use it with a stable reference. ←
15:48:13 <cgreer> ... We'd like to have it moved to a WG note as stable reference.
... We'd like to have it moved to a WG note as stable reference. ←
15:48:37 <Guus> q?
Guus Schreiber: q? ←
15:49:02 <cgreer> ... WG did recognize that different JSON RDF specs are useful for different use cases.
... WG did recognize that different JSON RDF specs are useful for different use cases. ←
15:49:09 <pchampin> q?
15:49:12 <pchampin> q+
15:49:25 <cgreer> guus: In first F2F we did consider exactly this.
Guus Schreiber: In first F2F we did consider exactly this. ←
15:49:28 <AndyS> By user usage and requests -- the Talis doc got archived/made safe at http://jena.apache.org/documentation/io/rdf-json.html and implemented.
Andy Seaborne: By user usage and requests -- the Talis doc got archived/made safe at http://jena.apache.org/documentation/io/rdf-json.html and implemented. ←
15:49:42 <cgreer> AndyS: We've seen uptake in use of RDF-JSON.
Andy Seaborne: We've seen uptake in use of RDF-JSON. ←
15:50:05 <cgreer> ... A note would be good.
... A note would be good. ←
15:50:20 <cgreer> manu: I'm fine with publication as a note.
Manu Sporny: I'm fine with publication as a note. ←
15:50:28 <cgreer> ... I want to find out more specifics though.
... I want to find out more specifics though. ←
15:50:32 <cgreer> ... about the IBM case.
... about the IBM case. ←
15:50:47 <cgreer> ... We thought that JSON-LD was made for this use case.
... We thought that JSON-LD was made for this use case. ←
15:51:09 <Zakim> -GavinC
Zakim IRC Bot: -GavinC ←
15:51:11 <cgreer> ... I'm concerned that IBM is making --- well, why is RDF-JSON better for this?
... I'm concerned that IBM is making --- well, why is RDF-JSON better for this? ←
15:51:39 <cgreer> ... It seems like a dump format, but I'd like to hear more.
... It seems like a dump format, but I'd like to hear more. ←
15:51:43 <AndyS> mailing list please
Andy Seaborne: mailing list please ←
15:51:46 <gkellogg> q+
Gregg Kellogg: q+ ←
15:51:48 <cgreer> Arnaud: OK we can keep this discussion going
Arnaud Le Hors: OK we can keep this discussion going ←
15:51:56 <AndyS> ack me
Andy Seaborne: ack me ←
15:51:56 <cgreer> guus: THe RDF-WG list please
Guus Schreiber: THe RDF-WG list please ←
15:52:20 <Guus> ack manu
Guus Schreiber: ack manu ←
15:52:29 <Guus> ack pchampin
Guus Schreiber: ack pchampin ←
15:52:44 <cgreer> pchampin: I see IBM's reason for not storing JSON-LD.
Pierre-Antoine Champin: I see IBM's reason for not storing JSON-LD. ←
15:52:54 <cgreer> The argument is about storing, not exchange.
The argument is about storing, not exchange. ←
15:53:15 <cgreer> pchampin: Maybe the note should emphasize that exchange and storage are not the same JSON.
Pierre-Antoine Champin: Maybe the note should emphasize that exchange and storage do not have to ne the same JSON. ←
15:53:21 <Guus> ack gkellogg
Guus Schreiber: ack gkellogg ←
15:53:30 <manu> You don't have to store and exchange the same document in JSON-LD either.
Manu Sporny: You don't have to store and exchange the same document in JSON-LD either. ←
15:53:31 <pchampin> s/are not/do not have to ne/
15:53:50 <cgreer> gkellogg: We discussed one of the advantages of RDF/XML is that you can index by subject. We'd discuss a feature called subject maps.
Gregg Kellogg: We discusseded one of the advantages of RDF/XML is that you can index by subject. We'd discussed a feature called subject maps. ←
15:53:50 <pchampin> s/do not have to ne/do not have to be/
15:54:04 <cgreer> s/discuss/discussed/
15:54:22 <cgreer> gkellogg: We're considering extensions/notes.
Gregg Kellogg: We're considering extensions/notes. ←
15:54:44 <cgreer> ... If you're storing JSON in MongoDB, URIs as keys is problematic.
... If you're storing JSON in MongoDB, URIs as keys is problematic. ←
15:54:55 <cgreer> ... The compact form of JSON-LD has advantages for this.
... The compact form of JSON-LD has advantages for this. ←
15:55:14 <cgreer> ... For query purposes, an enhanced triple format is better for indexing/storage.
... For query purposes, an enhanced triple format is better for indexing/storage. ←
15:55:52 <cgreer> Resolved: Arnaud is willing to serve as editor for this putative note.
RESOLVED: Arnaud is willing to serve as editor for this putative note. ←
15:55:58 <cgreer> topic: turtle test suite
15:56:22 <cgreer> ericP: We'd hoped to be done, but we keep getting bug reports and comments
Eric Prud'hommeaux: We'd hoped to be done, but we keep getting bug reports and comments ←
15:56:22 <Zakim> -??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P11 ←
15:56:41 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/1364751722.5708.24.camel@verne.drobilla.net <d@drobilla.net>'s patches to: upcase \U000b don't \U-ify unnecessary punctuation (e.g. \" or #)
Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://www.w3.org/mid/1364751722.5708.24.camel@verne.drobilla.net <d@drobilla.net>'s patches to: upcase \U000b don't \U-ify unnecessary punctuation (e.g. \" or #) ←
15:56:48 <cgreer> ericP: Traditional ntriples (ascii ntriples) has an issue
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Traditional ntriples (ascii ntriples) has an issue ←
15:57:21 <cgreer> ... Verne Drobilla (?) provided a patch to unify them.
... Verne Drobilla (?) provided a patch to unify them. ←
15:57:48 <cgreer> AndyS: At some point we're testing RDF not turtle. This seems to be the same case.
Andy Seaborne: At some point we're testing RDF not turtle. This seems to be the same case. ←
15:58:08 <cgreer> ericP: I'll use my own discretion in order to accept these patches.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I'll use my own discretion in order to accept these patches. ←
15:58:48 <cgreer> guus: I'd prefer you use your own discretion
Guus Schreiber: I'd prefer you use your own discretion ←
16:00:06 <cgreer> AndyS: results are invalid if we go around changing tests.
Andy Seaborne: results are invalid if we go around changing tests. ←
16:00:19 <cgreer> gkellogg: So we must get some communication about location of tests.
Gregg Kellogg: So we must get some communication about location of tests. ←
16:00:42 <cgreer> ericP: People will have to run tests again after location move. I'm happy to leave the tests alone.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: People will have to run tests again after location move. I'm happy to leave the tests alone. ←
16:00:48 <cgreer> ... The effort to change is small.
... The effort to change is small. ←
16:01:20 <cgreer> ... Before we publish the test suite, we have to confront the fact that xsd:strings are not xsd:strings.
... Before we publish the test suite, we have to confront the fact that xsd:strings are not xsd:strings. ←
16:01:35 <cgreer> ... Andy suggested we leave these alone.
... Andy suggested we leave these alone. ←
16:01:49 <cgreer> ericP: I'll take this to lsit
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I'll take this to list ←
16:01:53 <cgreer> s/lsit/list/
16:02:11 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:02:13 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:02:15 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
16:02:16 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:02:16 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
16:02:16 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
16:02:21 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
16:02:23 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:02:24 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
16:02:25 <Zakim> -FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: -FabGandon ←
16:02:25 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
16:02:25 <Zakim> -markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -markus ←
16:02:25 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus_Schreiber ←
16:02:33 <cgreer> rrsagent, make records public
rrsagent, make records public ←
16:02:34 <AndyS> XML 1.1 -- http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#NT-Char
Andy Seaborne: XML 1.1 -- http://www.w3.org/TR/xml11/#NT-Char ←
16:02:58 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting ←
16:02:58 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:02:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, EricP, pfps, Sandro, Arnaud, cgreer, AndyS, gkellogg, markus, AZ, pchampin, davidwood, yvesr, PatH, GavinC, FabGandon
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, EricP, pfps, Sandro, Arnaud, cgreer, AndyS, gkellogg, markus, AZ, pchampin, davidwood, yvesr, PatH, GavinC, FabGandon ←
16:03:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:03:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:03:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:03:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe