None.
14:58:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/17-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/17-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:58:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:58:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:58:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes ←
14:58:12 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:58:12 <trackbot> Date: 17 April 2013
14:58:21 <sandro> Zakim, who is here?
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:58:21 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, sandro ←
14:58:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot ←
14:58:45 <sandro> zakim, this is rdf
Sandro Hawke: zakim, this is rdf ←
14:58:45 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
14:58:51 <sandro> Zakim, who is here?
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is here? ←
14:58:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.408.992.aaaa, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see +1.408.992.aaaa, Sandro ←
14:58:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot ←
14:59:08 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is pfps
Sandro Hawke: zakim, aaaa is pfps ←
14:59:08 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
14:59:47 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
14:59:53 <pfps> zakim, who is here?
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is here? ←
14:59:54 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:59:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Sandro, ??P12, Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Sandro, ??P12, Ivan ←
14:59:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see Guus, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Guus, pchampin, Zakim, RRSAgent, pfps, tbaker, AndyS, gavinc, manu, ivan, SteveH, cygri, davidwood, manu1, yvesr, ericP, mischat, sandro, trackbot ←
14:59:58 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P12 is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P12 is me ←
14:59:58 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
15:00:13 <Zakim> +Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus ←
15:00:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:00:38 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
15:00:38 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:00:53 <Zakim> +??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←
15:01:00 <pchampin> zakim, ??P16 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P16 is me ←
15:01:01 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
15:02:10 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:02:32 <Zakim> + +1.707.874.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.874.aabb ←
15:02:42 <cgreer> zakim, aabb is me
Charles Greer: zakim, aabb is me ←
15:02:42 <Zakim> +cgreer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer; got it ←
15:03:28 <Zakim> +GavinC
Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC ←
15:03:29 <sandro> zakim, openlink_software is temporarily tallted
Sandro Hawke: zakim, openlink_software is temporarily tallted ←
15:03:29 <Zakim> +tallted; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tallted; got it ←
15:03:48 <Zakim> + +1.540.898.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.898.aacc ←
15:04:25 <davidwood> Zakim, aacc is me
David Wood: Zakim, aacc is me ←
15:04:25 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it ←
15:04:36 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
15:04:39 <cgreer> scribenick: cgreer
(Scribe set to Charles Greer)
15:04:42 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P26
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P26 ←
15:04:42 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
15:04:49 <cgreer> scribenick: cgreer
15:05:32 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/
Sandro Hawke: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/ ←
15:06:06 <Zakim> + +081165aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +081165aadd ←
15:06:13 <markus> zakim, code?
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, code? ←
15:06:13 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus ←
15:06:28 <AZ> zakim, aadd is me
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, aadd is me ←
15:06:28 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:06:42 <Zakim> +??P34
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P34 ←
15:06:43 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice] ←
15:06:46 <markus> zakim, ??P34 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P34 is me ←
15:06:46 <Zakim> +markus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it ←
15:06:47 <ericP> Zakim, [GVoice] is me
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, [GVoice] is me ←
15:06:48 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP; got it ←
15:06:50 <gavinc> or you know... just added RDFa to the template? :P
Gavin Carothers: or you know... just added RDFa to the template? :P ←
15:07:19 <gkellogg> http://json-ld.org/minutes/
Gregg Kellogg: http://json-ld.org/minutes/ ←
15:07:59 <gkellogg> Note that JSON-LD minute summaries include resolutions
Gregg Kellogg: Note that JSON-LD minute summaries include resolutions ←
15:09:04 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 April telecon:
David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 April telecon: ←
15:09:04 <davidwood>
15:09:04 <davidwood> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-04-10
David Wood: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-04-10 ←
15:09:13 <pfps> minutes are fine
Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes are fine ←
15:09:27 <davidwood> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 10 April telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-04-10
David Wood: RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 10 April telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-04-10 ←
15:09:36 <cgreer> topic: Action Items
15:09:37 <davidwood> Review of action items
David Wood: Review of action items ←
15:09:37 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview ←
15:09:37 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open ←
15:10:07 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:10:17 <cgreer> davidwood: actions related to turtle test suite
David Wood: actions related to turtle test suite ←
15:10:18 <cgreer> ?
? ←
15:10:22 <AZ> zakim, who's on the phone?
Antoine Zimmermann: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:10:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Sandro, SteveH, Ivan, Guus, AndyS, pchampin, tallted, cgreer, GavinC, davidwood, gkellogg, AZ, ericP, markus, PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Sandro, SteveH, Ivan, Guus, AndyS, pchampin, tallted, cgreer, GavinC, davidwood, gkellogg, AZ, ericP, markus, PatH ←
15:10:26 <cgreer> gavinc: we dont have word from all contributors yet
Gavin Carothers: we dont have word from all contributors yet ←
15:10:34 <cgreer> gavinc: the grant form is pending
Gavin Carothers: the grant form is pending ←
15:10:53 <cgreer> davidwood: I know the status. Dave Beckett may have filled it out.
Sandro Hawke: I know the status. Dave Beckett may have filled it out. ←
15:11:04 <davidwood> s/davidwood/sandro/
15:11:12 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/testgrants-200409/
Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/testgrants-200409/ ←
15:12:11 <cgreer> gavinc: We need this from David Robelard... and OK We can publish the test suite!
Gavin Carothers: We need this from David Robelard... and OK We can publish the test suite! ←
15:12:20 <cgreer> gavinc: new license is in there and updated
Gavin Carothers: new license is in there and updated ←
15:12:48 <cgreer> ericP: I can do rest of work after the meeting.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I can do rest of work after the meeting. ←
15:12:58 <cgreer> ericP: It's going into 2013/turtle-tests
Eric Prud'hommeaux: It's going into 2013/turtle-tests ←
15:12:59 <sandro> > David Robillard : On behalf of the contributing organization named above, I agree to the above Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published as Part of a W3C Recommendation.
Sandro Hawke: > David Robillard : On behalf of the contributing organization named above, I agree to the above Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published as Part of a W3C Recommendation. ←
15:12:59 <sandro> > David Beckett : On behalf of the contributing organization named above, I agree to the above Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published as Part of a W3C Recommendation.
Sandro Hawke: > David Beckett : On behalf of the contributing organization named above, I agree to the above Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published as Part of a W3C Recommendation. ←
15:13:33 <cgreer> sandro: I gave my talk on changes to RDF 1.1
Sandro Hawke: I gave my talk on changes to RDF 1.1 ←
15:13:42 <cgreer> ... It went pretty well.
... It went pretty well. ←
15:13:45 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2013/Talks/0409-rdf11/
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2013/Talks/0409-rdf11/ ←
15:14:27 <cgreer> PatH: You sounded cautious when you said it went well.
Patrick Hayes: You sounded cautious when you said it went well. ←
15:14:38 <cgreer> sandro: That meant there was a lack of negativity in the audience
Sandro Hawke: That meant there was a lack of negativity in the audience ←
15:14:51 <cgreer> davidwood: On to document dependencies
David Wood: On to document dependencies ←
15:14:55 <cgreer> topic: Document Dependenciew
15:15:03 <cgreer> s/Dependenciew/Dependencies
15:15:17 <davidwood> Normative References to W3C Standards http://www.w3.org/2013/02/stdref
David Wood: Normative References to W3C Standards http://www.w3.org/2013/02/stdref ←
15:15:24 <cgreer> davidwood: Ian J. announced a new document...
David Wood: Ian J. announced a new document... ←
15:15:27 <davidwood> Takes effect 28 April or after
David Wood: Takes effect 28 April or after ←
15:16:00 <pfps> as far as I can tell, Semantics is already compliant wrt to this
Peter Patel-Schneider: as far as I can tell, Semantics is already compliant wrt to this ←
15:16:16 <pfps> ... although I don't know exactly what changes, if any, are required
Peter Patel-Schneider: ... although I don't know exactly what changes, if any, are required ←
15:16:25 <cgreer> PatH: I looked at this and couldn't see changes
Patrick Hayes: I looked at this and couldn't see changes ←
15:16:32 <cgreer> davidwood: I couldn't find deltas either
Sandro Hawke: I couldn't find deltas either ←
15:16:42 <cgreer> s/davidwood/sandro
15:17:11 <cgreer> gavinc: the preference direction has changed from latest to 'this' version
Gavin Carothers: the preference direction has changed from latest to 'this' version ←
15:17:35 <cgreer> gavinc: from 'this' to latest (correction)
Gavin Carothers: from 'this' to latest (correction) ←
15:17:53 <cgreer> davidwood: in Richard's absence we'll skip concepts
David Wood: in Richard's absence we'll skip concepts ←
15:18:15 <pfps> +1
15:18:18 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
15:18:20 <cgreer> davidwood: Any other business?
David Wood: Any other business? ←
15:18:32 <gavinc> or DOM4 :D
Gavin Carothers: or DOM4 :D ←
15:18:45 <Zakim> +pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps ←
15:18:58 <PatH> 1-pfps=?
Patrick Hayes: 1-pfps=? ←
15:19:07 <pfps> +1
15:19:11 <PatH> ah
Patrick Hayes: ah ←
15:19:12 <pfps> q+
15:19:22 <cgreer> gavinc: On the trailing dot. THe reason why it's still there is that we decided to leave it there as long as it was at risk
Gavin Carothers: On the trailing dot. THe reason why it's still there is that we decided to leave it there as long as it was at risk ←
15:19:33 <cgreer> gavinc: We can go back and change so that either works
Gavin Carothers: We can go back and change so that either works ←
15:19:51 <cgreer> ericP: If we're going to make it optional, we need to go back to LC
Eric Prud'hommeaux: If we're going to make it optional, we need to go back to LC ←
15:19:56 <AndyS> Please - not - "PREFIX <> ."
Andy Seaborne: Please - not - "PREFIX <> ." ←
15:20:01 <cgreer> davidwood: We don't want to keep changing the grammar.
David Wood: We don't want to keep changing the grammar. ←
15:20:23 <cgreer> davidwood: Better not to keep changing it.
David Wood: Better not to keep changing it. ←
15:20:33 <cgreer> sandro: Do you mean language or grammar?
Sandro Hawke: Do you mean language or grammar? ←
15:21:01 <cgreer> We'll agree on 'language' or BNF
We'll agree on 'language' or BNF ←
15:21:25 <cgreer> gavinc: Nobody is suggesting that we should allow trailing dot after SPARQL form
Gavin Carothers: Nobody is suggesting that we should allow trailing dot after SPARQL form ←
15:21:53 <cgreer> ... the problem with making '.' optional after @prefix is that it can make some turtle documents impossible to...
... the problem with making '.' optional after @prefix is that it can make some turtle documents impossible to... ←
15:22:04 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:22:07 <sandro> Case 1: @prefix dot Case 2: @prefix no dot Case 3: PREFIX dot Case 4: PREFIX no dot
Sandro Hawke: Case 1: @prefix dot Case 2: @prefix no dot Case 3: PREFIX dot Case 4: PREFIX no dot ←
15:22:14 <davidwood> ack pfps
David Wood: ack pfps ←
15:22:27 <cgreer> pfps: It would be nice to get discussion of outstanding concepts and semantics issues
Peter Patel-Schneider: It would be nice to get discussion of outstanding concepts and semantics issues ←
15:22:34 <cgreer> ... cause the resolutions were blocked
... cause the resolutions were blocked ←
15:22:54 <cgreer> pfps: The issues are in the agenda
Peter Patel-Schneider: The issues are in the agenda ←
15:23:17 <cgreer> pfps: While we're in turtle...
Peter Patel-Schneider: While we're in turtle... ←
15:23:31 <cgreer> davidwood: we can't just throw away a trailing dot
David Wood: we can't just throw away a trailing dot ←
15:23:43 <cgreer> ericP: for some pathological document it can change the meaning
Eric Prud'hommeaux: for some pathological document it can change the meaning ←
15:23:57 <cgreer> davidwood: Why wouldn't the same condition occur with use of SPARQL
David Wood: Why wouldn't the same condition occur with use of SPARQL ←
15:23:58 <AndyS> q+ to ask for the example document.
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask for the example document. ←
15:24:11 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:24:11 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask for the example document.
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask for the example document. ←
15:24:17 <cgreer> gavinc: SPARQL doesn't have backwards-compatible issue
Gavin Carothers: SPARQL doesn't have backwards-compatible issue ←
15:24:24 <cgreer> AndyS: I'm not sure it's an issue.
Andy Seaborne: I'm not sure it's an issue. ←
15:24:38 <cgreer> sandro: The cases are above.
Sandro Hawke: The cases are above. ←
15:24:57 <cgreer> ... case 2 is the one we're discussing
... case 2 is the one we're discussing ←
15:25:24 <cgreer> ericP: Example in the record?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Example in the record? ←
15:25:36 <sandro> sandro: I'm hearing case-1 accepted, case-4 at risk, case-3 no one wants, case-2 heresay that it's a problem.
Sandro Hawke: I'm hearing case-1 accepted, case-4 at risk, case-3 no one wants, case-2 heresay that it's a problem. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:25:54 <gkellogg> @prefix a: <b> a:c a a:d .
Gregg Kellogg: @prefix a: <b> a:c a a:d . ←
15:25:57 <cgreer> sandro: Case three is disallowed from SPARQL, so let's not train people to use it
Sandro Hawke: Case three is disallowed from SPARQL, so let's not train people to use it ←
15:26:16 <sandro> sandro: I'm hearing the problem with case-3 is that it would train people to use a dot, which woldn't work in SPARQL.
Sandro Hawke: I'm hearing the problem with case-3 is that it would train people to use a dot, which woldn't work in SPARQL. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:26:17 <AndyS> The issue will be decimals.
Andy Seaborne: The issue will be decimals. ←
15:26:56 <cgreer> AndyS: It woudl have to be a literal subject to break case 2.
Andy Seaborne: It would have to be a literal subject to break case 2. ←
15:27:01 <cgreer> s/woudl/would/
15:27:06 <AndyS> @prefix a: <> \n .8 :p 123 .
Andy Seaborne: @prefix a: <> \n .8 :p 123 . ←
15:27:09 <pchampin> @prefix a: <b> .0 a xsd:integer .
Pierre-Antoine Champin: @prefix a: <b> .0 a xsd:integer . ←
15:27:50 <sandro> sandro: But a literal wouldn't be legal there anyway.
Sandro Hawke: But a literal wouldn't be legal there anyway. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:27:53 <cgreer> davidwood: This is a shortcut literal (no ")
David Wood: This is a shortcut literal (no ") ←
15:28:03 <cgreer> gavinc: Right the only problem was from inverse syntax.
Gavin Carothers: Right the only problem was from inverse syntax. ←
15:28:11 <sandro> gavin: But with the INVERSE syntax it would have been a problem.
Gavin Carothers: But with the INVERSE syntax it would have been a problem. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:28:19 <PatH> blech on shortcuts.
Patrick Hayes: blech on shortcuts. ←
15:28:22 <cgreer> AndyS: Other problem was that prefix name could start with a '.'
Andy Seaborne: Other problem was that prefix name could start with a '.' ←
15:28:34 <cgreer> gavinc: WHich it can't.
Gavin Carothers: WHich it can't. ←
15:28:48 <AndyS> We ought to move on to PFPS.
Andy Seaborne: We ought to move on to PFPS. ←
15:28:57 <sandro> sandro: It's my FIRM belief this would not require another Last Call.
Sandro Hawke: It's my FIRM belief this would not require another Last Call. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:29:35 <cgreer> davidwood: There's no public record of objection.
David Wood: There's no public record of objection. ←
15:29:44 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:29:45 <cgreer> gavinc: We've just established that there's no problem.
Gavin Carothers: We've just established that there's no problem. ←
15:29:46 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
15:29:56 <pfps> .. xsd:string??
Peter Patel-Schneider: .. xsd:string?? ←
15:30:04 <cgreer> davidwood: Move on to pfps concerns on open issues?
David Wood: Move on to pfps concerns on open issues? ←
15:30:57 <sandro> eric: It MIGHT require a new Last Call since it requires every implementation to change.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: It MIGHT require a new Last Call since it requires every implementation to change. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:31:04 <cgreer> ericP: I'm trying to figure out the rationale for the optional .
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I'm trying to figure out the rationale for the optional . ←
15:31:19 <cgreer> davidwood: I don't see a strong case for change either.
David Wood: I don't see a strong case for change either. ←
15:31:48 <cgreer> davidwood: We'll have to retest and reimplement if we adopt this, and we will end up back in LC
David Wood: We'll have to retest and reimplement if we adopt this, and we will end up back in LC ←
15:31:54 <AndyS> Suggestion - discuss on comments and make it a community decision because if community wants we can do it. If not, don't.
Andy Seaborne: Suggestion - discuss on comments and make it a community decision because if community wants we can do it. If not, don't. ←
15:32:05 <cgreer> +1 AndyS
+1 AndyS ←
15:32:06 <sandro> +1 Andy
Sandro Hawke: +1 Andy ←
15:32:42 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
15:32:57 <cgreer> ericP: re Andy's suggestion, depending on phrasing of question we might lead the community.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: re Andy's suggestion, depending on phrasing of question we might lead the community. ←
15:32:59 <davidwood> ack sandro
David Wood: ack sandro ←
15:33:10 <cgreer> sandro: What are we going to do about PREFIX
Sandro Hawke: What are we going to do about PREFIX ←
15:33:24 <cgreer> ericP: And this does reflect a discontinuity within the WG
Eric Prud'hommeaux: And this does reflect a discontinuity within the WG ←
15:33:35 <cgreer> ... copy/paste people vs. turtle people ;)
... copy/paste people vs. turtle people ;) ←
15:33:41 <ivan> +1 to Sandro
Ivan Herman: +1 to Sandro ←
15:34:05 <ivan> yes
Ivan Herman: yes ←
15:34:06 <cgreer> davidwood: I'm regretting we didn't just break it and move to PREFIX
David Wood: I'm regretting we didn't just break it and move to PREFIX ←
15:34:17 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me ←
15:34:17 <Zakim> Ivan was not muted, ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan was not muted, ivan ←
15:34:42 <ericP> i'd like to see text that says that "@prefix" is discouraged in order to promote cut&paste
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i'd like to see text that says that "@prefix" is discouraged in order to promote cut&paste ←
15:34:45 <cgreer> ivan: What Sandro said is what I meant -- we expected this comment earlier
Ivan Herman: What Sandro said is what I meant -- we expected this comment earlier ←
15:35:05 <cgreer> ... we got no comment on @previx vs. PREFIX
... we got no comment on @previx vs. PREFIX ←
15:35:26 <cgreer> ericP: We've gotten comments from implementers who don't like it.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: We've gotten comments from implementers who don't like it. ←
15:35:29 <AndyS> the comment was first made March 2.
Andy Seaborne: the comment was first made March 2. ←
15:35:49 <ericP> we've also gotten comments from users who want cut and paste
Eric Prud'hommeaux: we've also gotten comments from users who want cut and paste ←
15:35:57 <cgreer> davidwood: Most people won't care particularly
David Wood: Most people won't care particularly ←
15:36:14 <cgreer> ivan: As a user I don't care.
Ivan Herman: As a user I don't care. ←
15:36:36 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
15:36:36 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
15:36:37 <cgreer> davidwood: Then let's wait for a week. See how it settles
David Wood: Then let's wait for a week. See how it settles ←
15:37:13 <cgreer> topic: semantics
15:37:31 <pfps> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Apr/0101.html
Peter Patel-Schneider: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Apr/0101.html ←
15:37:37 <davidwood> ISSUE-107?
15:37:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-107 -- Revised definition of blank nodes -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-107 -- Revised definition of blank nodes -- open ←
15:37:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/107
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/107 ←
15:37:44 <cgreer> pfps: Blank node definition
Peter Patel-Schneider: Blank node definition ←
15:38:03 <cgreer> ... different graphs can share blank nodes. We've agreed on that.
... different graphs can share blank nodes. We've agreed on that. ←
15:38:11 <cgreer> ... So how to change semantics and concepts to reflect reality
... So how to change semantics and concepts to reflect reality ←
15:38:42 <cgreer> ... RDF graphs can share blank nodes. When you merge two graphs you don't have to relabel blank nodes, because they may indeed refer to the same one
... RDF graphs can share blank nodes. When you merge two graphs you don't have to relabel blank nodes, because they may indeed refer to the same one ←
15:39:05 <cgreer> PatH: Some more elaborate discussions have been put to bed.
Patrick Hayes: Some more elaborate discussions have been put to bed. ←
15:39:13 <cgreer> ... we won't use formal scope
... we won't use formal scope ←
15:39:27 <cgreer> pfps: But something needs to be added to concepts.
Peter Patel-Schneider: But something needs to be added to concepts. ←
15:39:27 <davidwood> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0135.html
David Wood: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0135.html ←
15:40:07 <cgreer> davidwood: I don't think that Richard's propsed text fully addressed everything that Peter mentioned.
David Wood: I don't think that Richard's propsed text fully addressed everything that Peter mentioned. ←
15:40:29 <cgreer> pfps: Richard's message from 11/9/2012 doesn't talk about this.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Richard's message from 11/9/2012 doesn't talk about this. ←
15:40:52 <cgreer> ... all it does is change wording that introduces blank nodes
... all it does is change wording that introduces blank nodes ←
15:40:54 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:40:59 <cgreer> ... They're not IRIs and not literals
... They're not IRIs and not literals ←
15:41:21 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/#terms-blanks-nodes is I think the only place we talk about this at the moment ;_)
Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/#terms-blanks-nodes is I think the only place we talk about this at the moment ;_) ←
15:41:32 <PatH> q+
Patrick Hayes: q+ ←
15:41:59 <gavinc> TriG doesn't say "may"
Gavin Carothers: TriG doesn't say "may" ←
15:42:34 <cgreer> pfps: Section 1.7 of concepts ...
Peter Patel-Schneider: Section 1.7 of concepts ... ←
15:42:49 <cgreer> ... concepts doc hasn't been changed, and has been overtaken by revision of semantics
... concepts doc hasn't been changed, and has been overtaken by revision of semantics ←
15:43:11 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
15:43:16 <cgreer> pfps takes action to propose wording for concepts
pfps takes action to propose wording for concepts ←
15:43:16 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:43:33 <gavinc> +q to ask if the wording in TriG is okay with the blanknodists
Gavin Carothers: +q to ask if the wording in TriG is okay with the blanknodists ←
15:43:47 <cgreer> ivan: Agreed, action to Peter because we have to move
Ivan Herman: Agreed, action to Peter because we have to move ←
15:44:20 <cgreer> Action: pfps to revise wording in concepts to reflect blank node semantics changes
ACTION: pfps to revise wording in concepts to reflect blank node semantics changes ←
15:44:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-252 - Revise wording in concepts to reflect blank node semantics changes [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-04-24].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-252 - Revise wording in concepts to reflect blank node semantics changes [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-04-24]. ←
15:44:35 <davidwood> ack PatH
David Wood: ack PatH ←
15:44:46 <davidwood> ack gavinc
David Wood: ack gavinc ←
15:44:46 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to ask if the wording in TriG is okay with the blanknodists
Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, you wanted to ask if the wording in TriG is okay with the blanknodists ←
15:44:49 <PatH> -q
Patrick Hayes: -q ←
15:45:15 <cgreer> gavinc: Wanted to make sure that some of this 'scope' has been pushed into syntax. Confirm that wording is ok in TriG?
Gavin Carothers: Wanted to make sure that some of this 'scope' has been pushed into syntax. Confirm that wording is ok in TriG? ←
15:45:27 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/#terms-blanks-nodes
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/TR/trig/#terms-blanks-nodes ←
15:45:29 <gavinc> BlankNodes sharing the same label in differently labeled graph statements must be considered to be the same BlankNode.
Gavin Carothers: BlankNodes sharing the same label in differently labeled graph statements must be considered to be the same BlankNode. ←
15:45:50 <cgreer> ivan: That is what we decided.
Ivan Herman: That is what we decided. ←
15:46:17 <pchampin> +1 Pat
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 Pat ←
15:46:23 <cgreer> PatH: Presuming that TriG implies 'in the same file'
Patrick Hayes: Presuming that TriG implies 'in the same file' ←
15:46:26 <pchampin> +1 Ivan, Gavin
Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1 Ivan, Gavin ←
15:46:27 <pchampin> :)
15:46:34 <pchampin> me too
Pierre-Antoine Champin: me too ←
15:46:36 <AndyS> One parser run.
Andy Seaborne: One parser run. ←
15:46:37 <cgreer> PatH: I'd feel happier if it said that.
Patrick Hayes: I'd feel happier if it said that. ←
15:46:45 <cgreer> pfps: That's not what it means
Peter Patel-Schneider: That's not what it means ←
15:46:52 <cgreer> gavinc: No, it's one parser run
Gavin Carothers: No, it's one parser run ←
15:47:23 <cgreer> davidwood: That's exactly what it should say. One parser run.
David Wood: That's exactly what it should say. One parser run. ←
15:47:32 <cgreer> PatH: Also this is a non-normative section with MUST
Patrick Hayes: Also this is a non-normative section with MUST ←
15:48:23 <cgreer> sandro: There's a respec change to default sections -- default -> non-normative rather than default -> normative
Sandro Hawke: There's a respec change to default sections -- default -> non-normative rather than default -> normative ←
15:48:29 <cgreer> sandro: But let's not rely on the default
Sandro Hawke: But let's not rely on the default ←
15:49:21 <cgreer> davidwood: any more business?
David Wood: any more business? ←
15:49:36 <cgreer> subtopic: issue-109
15:49:36 <davidwood> ISSUE-109?
15:49:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-109 -- What's the consequence of a literal being ill-typed? -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-109 -- What's the consequence of a literal being ill-typed? -- open ←
15:49:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/109
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/109 ←
15:50:32 <pchampin> 5.5 of concepts should be rephrased
Pierre-Antoine Champin: 5.5 of concepts should be rephrased ←
15:50:39 <cgreer> Action: to pfps to review concepts for what it says about ill typed literals
ACTION: to pfps to review concepts for what it says about ill typed literals ←
15:50:39 <trackbot> Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>. ←
15:50:53 <davidwood> ISSUE-118?
15:50:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-118 -- Simplifying datatype semantics -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-118 -- Simplifying datatype semantics -- open ←
15:50:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/118
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/118 ←
15:51:21 <cgreer> Action: to PatH propose solution for ISSUE-118
ACTION: to PatH propose solution for ISSUE-118 ←
15:51:21 <trackbot> Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>. ←
15:51:28 <pfps> Action: pfps to propose changes for what it says about ill-typed literals
ACTION: pfps to propose changes for what it says about ill-typed literals ←
15:51:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-253 - Propose changes for what it says about ill-typed literals [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-04-24].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-253 - Propose changes for what it says about ill-typed literals [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2013-04-24]. ←
15:51:40 <Zakim> -Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus ←
15:52:12 <PatH> sandro, what is latest respec link we should use?
Patrick Hayes: sandro, what is latest respec link we should use? ←
15:52:16 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:52:17 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
15:52:17 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
15:52:18 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:52:18 <Zakim> -cgreer
Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer ←
15:52:19 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:52:19 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
15:52:20 <Zakim> -GavinC
Zakim IRC Bot: -GavinC ←
15:52:20 <Zakim> -tallted
Zakim IRC Bot: -tallted ←
15:52:21 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
15:52:23 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
15:52:23 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
15:52:24 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
15:52:27 <Zakim> -markus
Zakim IRC Bot: -markus ←
15:52:28 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended ←
15:52:28 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.992.aaaa, Sandro, pfps, Ivan, SteveH, Guus, AndyS, pchampin, +1.707.874.aabb, cgreer, GavinC, tallted, +1.540.898.aacc, davidwood, gkellogg, +081165aadd, AZ,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.408.992.aaaa, Sandro, pfps, Ivan, SteveH, Guus, AndyS, pchampin, +1.707.874.aabb, cgreer, GavinC, tallted, +1.540.898.aacc, davidwood, gkellogg, +081165aadd, AZ, ←
15:52:28 <Zakim> ... markus, ericP, PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: ... markus, ericP, PatH ←
15:52:30 <cgreer> Action: PatH to propose solution for ISSUE-118
ACTION: PatH to propose solution for ISSUE-118 ←
15:52:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-254 - Propose solution for ISSUE-118 [on Patrick Hayes - due 2013-04-24].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-254 - Propose solution for ISSUE-118 [on Patrick Hayes - due 2013-04-24]. ←
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